Teaching advanced pupils

Teaching advanced pupils

by Rachel Cook -
Number of replies: 17

Use this forum thread to share your experiences of teaching advanced pupils.  

We expect everyone to abide by ABRSM's Netiquette Policy (etiquette on the Net).  Feel free to discuss repertoire, technique, troubleshoot  teaching concerns or share positive news. 

In reply to Rachel Cook

Re: Teaching advanced pupils

by Deleted user -
Hello, I have an advanced pupil (cello) that in general has developed really good skills/technique. The only thing is that they've gotten used to a very awkward bow, which, although works okay now, I know will cause great issues in future. Does anyone have any process ideas that would allow them to go back to very basics with bow hold without discouraging from further progress? Thank you x
In reply to Deleted user

Re: Teaching advanced pupils

by Behzad Rostami -

Hi Wla

A lot of new mistakes may happen to a pupil during the time that should be corrected by teacher, it's very common in music that pupils go through bad habits but teachers are responsible to put them back in the correct way frequently so don't worry about that and feel free to contact him/her ?

Good luck 

In reply to Deleted user

Re: Teaching advanced pupils

by Zoë Booth -
I'm a woodwind teacher to I don't have any tips on bow-hold, but I can really sympathise with this, as I have often inherited pupils where the basics - e.g. correct fingerings or hand position - might be lacking, despite the student having developed the ability to work on advanced repertoire. I know that it will cause them more difficulty down the line if I don't offer encouragement to adjust sooner rather than later, but it's tricky striking the balance that keeps them motivated. To get started, I often find that beginning a new piece (perhaps one that's easier than their playing-standard) and focussing on the particular technique at hand can begin to help them break from the previous, incorrect muscle-memory patterns (which are often most strongly embedded in works they've been playing for a while). I'd be interested in other tips too.
In reply to Rachel Cook

Re: Teaching advanced pupils

by Deleted user -
One of my most advanced pupils wants to play some repertoire that I feel she might need more experience for: Beethoven's 32 Variations. She's very receptive to feedback so when I told her this she took it on, but it always feels difficult saying things like this when pupils (particularly younger ones) think they're at a point where they have the technical and musical ability to play most things. I keep mentioning that no matter how "good" she may feel, the musical journey really is based on lifelong learning and there'll always be room to grow!
In reply to Deleted user

Re: Teaching advanced pupils

by Hilary Smethurst-Evans -
How are you working towards it? Have you managed to find other repertoire so she can start experimenting with the techniques and any new ideas that she will need for 32 V?
In reply to Hilary Smethurst-Evans

Re: Teaching advanced pupils

by Marianne Troppo -

Hello to anyone here . This forum seems very inactive and difficult to use. I  want to let anyone here know that a lot of the people (both teachers and pupils ) who used to be on the old ABRSM forum have set up a new forum.  Everyone is welcome.  Please search for the following: 

instrumentalists.freeforums.net


Best wishes to all. 



In reply to Marianne Troppo

Re: Teaching advanced pupils

by Cole Bendall -

Hi Marianne,

This is interesting - would you mind sharing why you've found it a little more difficult to use? I'm currently feeding back some information on the use of the forum to our ABRSM colleagues and I wondered if there was anything specific that made things harder?

C

In reply to Cole Bendall

Re: Teaching advanced pupils

by Marianne Troppo -
Hello Cole,
I think that the linear and restricted nature of this hub discussion makes it almost impossible to use. Users cannot start a fresh discussion thread about an issue that they have with teaching, so far as I can see. There is little chance of community spirit building here, little chance of sharing about specific issues, little opportunity to discuss practical elements of running a teaching business. All these were possible on the old ABRSM forums. It also appears that only teachers are welcome and not keen players of music and learners.
If you would like to see what most of the old forum users want from this sort of platform I would suggest visiting and joining our new forum at
instrumentalists.freeforums.net

All our welcome. It is also actively moderated and administered by a keen team, who are also part of the community. ?

There were so many old threads in the old forum that provided great advice, given altruistically by very experienced teachers. Many are mystified that that information has been deleted - no attempt was made to archive it.....such a waste of a valuable resource given freely by like-minded individuals for the good of all.

If you or anyone else wants to talk further, you may email me at matroppo@aol.com
In reply to Marianne Troppo

Re: Teaching advanced pupils

by Cole Bendall -
Hi Marianne,

This is very detailed and illuminating. I really hope this advice has not been lost to the ether forever and that there's a way to bring back this information; of course, I'll feed this back to ABRSM in my next conversations. Thank you.

Cole
In reply to Deleted user

Re: Teaching advanced pupils

by Catherine Millar -

You could potentially let her buy the music and encourage her to follow the score whilst listening to a great recording. This may lead her to the conclusion herself that it is currently too hard, or she may find a section that is currently accessible and the rest will follow. Either way it is a win win. She has listened to  a wonderful piece, played by a professional and  improved her score reading skills. This piece could then be the benchmark for other pieces.  When she asks about another piece, you could tell her if that piece is harder or easier than the Beethoven. All credit to you that she is keen to explore the boundaries of her learning.

In reply to Catherine Millar

Re: Teaching advanced pupils

by Hugh Waldock -
Does anyone understand the joys of making the perfect recording of a piece? I feel that can be more interesting for some pupils than a live performance in front of an audience. For me as a self-learner since 2005 recording has been the most essential tool in helping me to improve. 

When you are playing you might miss a technical issue which you can notice in playback and work on. I just like to leave the recording device on and just play until I get an immaculate performance. 

I just like to be a perfectionist with it and record for the internet mainly because my playing environment living with a mother aged 78 isn't ideal. 

Maybe people's pupils have equally distracting lives in which it's impossible to concentrate musically. Maybe recording live would help them too?
In reply to Hugh Waldock

Re: Teaching advanced pupils

by Hilary Smethurst-Evans -
That sounds like a very difficult situation for you. I try to make the most of my lessons with pupils as I realise that sometimes their lesson is their haven - it's a special place where they can escape and enjoy their music. I also try to encourage them to work in a practice room at lunchtime/break etc in school if they find working at home difficult.

When it comes to recordings and live performances I try to match the situation to the skills and needs of my pupils and this is where the larger choice of assessment (if that's what they want to do) is great. It means that far more pupils can access assessments if they want to (e.g. Music Medals, face to face grades and recorded grades plus all of the local festivals etc.)
In reply to Hilary Smethurst-Evans

Re: Teaching advanced pupils

by Hugh Waldock -
Sorry, I'm just starting out. I haven't taught music yet. I'm just a competent player. I learned outside the British system initially.

 Until now I have been a performer. I want to help. It's just a question of how much people want me to help. I want to teach adults more than kids. So, many adults love music and never get their chance to shine. I want to give them that chance, especially people with disabilities. 
In reply to Hugh Waldock

Re: Teaching advanced pupils

by Zoë Booth -
I find there's a place for recording in my pupil's lives too, and sometimes working towards making a recording is a good objective. Using a device to record part of a practice session can be really illuminating, just as you describe, and it's probably not a perfect recording so it doesn't have to be kept... although it can be useful to compare later and see how far you've come! Aiming to make a recording to play to others is really fulfilling though, and takes a lot of concentration, just as you describe Hugh.
In reply to Zoë Booth

Re: Teaching advanced pupils

by Hilary Smethurst-Evans -
I agree - so many times I wish my pupils had recorded themselves when they were starting a piece or before they learnt a new technique as the progress that a 'before' and 'after' recording would show would be vast. And such a motivating recording to have to show that their hard work is worth it. I am going to try to include it at the start of next term - thanks for reminding me.
In reply to Hilary Smethurst-Evans

Re: Teaching advanced pupils

by Monica Smith -
With all the recording that is now happening and pupils being used to Zoom (or other) lessons I suppose they are more used to this kind of thing? Some of my pupils also do recorded exams - has anyone done a recorded ARSM yet? What was that like? I have never done one before, do you think you get the same sense of occasion? Are your pupils more or less nervous (or the same)?
In reply to Rachel Cook

Re: Teaching advanced pupils

by Marianne Troppo -
Hi everyone. The teacher hub here is difficult to use because we can't start our own forum threads. It's such a shame that the old ABRSM forum was deleted and not archived, because there was such a wealth of information there going back years .

Many of the previous members of the ABRSM old forum, including experienced teachers, musical educators, keen learners and musical enthusiasts have migrated to this forum below. You are all very welcome in the new space. Just search for this URL :

instrumentalists.freeforums.net